Comments on: A CIVL debate

By: Martin

Martin — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:16:11 +0000

Does the acceleration of technological progress mean that there is a lot of money pouring into the sport?. It is more than about fun and bragging rights. isn’t it? If there is money, people will always find a way to go faster – as the author pointed to F1. Next year everyone will have what winners have today and winners will have to stay ahead..to stay ahead.

I hope that in the long term better wings will be available to weekend flyers, like myself, allowing me to fly more often, more and more safely.

For now carbon is about performance, let’s hope that in the future it will be there for all.

The short term problem is – as always with progress – that people may get hurt.

By: CIVL PLenary Agenda: Carbon in paragliders: Safety and paragliding | Cross Country International Hang Gliding and Paragliding Magazine

Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:49:41 +0000

[...] the hot topic and the one that has caught the attention of paraglider pilots around the world is the carbon debate – should it be allowed in [...]

By: BBHPP de Ozone: Revolución en el parapente… « Parapentelandia

BBHPP de Ozone: Revolución en el parapente… « Parapentelandia — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:02:06 +0000

[...] XC Mag: Debate CIVL [...]

By: Graeme Henderson

Graeme Henderson — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:07:45 +0000

It’s like an echo. This debate goes back to the very roots of the concept of a flexible wing. Flexibility is an appealing idea because it is convenient, cheap and light. It falls down on performance and safety.
If you go back and look at the introduction of battens into the hang glider you will find all the same questions, discussions, and even the answers I think.
Full length very flexible battens holding the roach tips were ultimately replaced by preformed battens with flexible tips for performance with stability and control response considerations. Paraglider Pilots may find it hard to believe, but the trade-offs were worth it.
If you combine a performance increase coupled to a safety increase you don’t have change, you have evolution. The ideology of the completely flexible wing is interesting. But you don’t fly for the ideology, you fly for fun, and performance and safety add to the fun.
If you force them into a new class then in the end the pterodactyls will just fade away, and the old classes will be forgotten and dropped.
The PMA is just stalling for time while they play catch up.
In the mean time buy an ozone until the clones appear

By: Andy Roberts

Andy Roberts — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:03:34 +0000

I think that regardless of classification that if the carbon technology is that good it will survive and filter down to the lower performing gliders. I am all for it so long as I don’t have to faff around doing fancy packing techniques in confined spaces and worrying if the airline is going to metamorphose my wing into something resembling a porcupine!

By: Johan

Johan — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:12:04 +0000

My personal opinion is that the carbon rod technology is a very intresting development. Especially as seems to pack just like any other glider. What I think would be intresting to se is how the carbon rods will affect a serial class wing, say EN C, with the normal line configuration. How would the glider be affected with regard to collapses, will a cravatte be easy or hard to untangle. How far can you puch line reduction and what will happen if more than a few rods break? The reason why at least I would be intrested in this is because of the classification rules for serial class wings.

By: Arturo Mena

Arturo Mena — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:07:48 +0000

EMBRACE CHANGE!!!!!!!!! Lend me one “delta” and i’ll fly it untill my behind numbs!!!!!!

We all have to accept change remember when the first topless hang glider appeared???

By: Loren

Loren — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:10:39 +0000

Thanks for the post… Very informative and a nice synopsis of the situation.

By: Roger

Roger — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:05:29 +0000

I think the true point is clearly missed.
To me the use of carbon is NOT the point !
Just change the carbon rods for nylon rods, and the Ozone Bbhpp will fly exactly the same !
The very good overall performance of the Bbhpp is not due to the carbon rods, but to a combination of several factors well designed : a performing and slim profile, 2 liner, very nice canopy vault, and original \open\ wing tips.
The Bbhpp is a normal paraglider as any other. and some PWC protos have more \stiffening\ than it has.
But indeed carbon rods has to be banned, not because they are \rigid\, but because they are BREAKABLE, that is a major issue for the paraglider and pilot safety…

By: Gary du Plessis

Gary du Plessis — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:02:16 +0000

Economics always wins the battle in the end, so here’s my question.

If a new class of paraglider is created that is safe to fly but offers much better performance, will this out-grow normal paragliders and be the death of them anyway?

I would certainly fly the new class if I knew it offered equal safety but better performance.

By: Xiros Jiannis

Xiros Jiannis — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:51:33 +0000

I think we should adapt this new invencion and to work it futher to improve all categories of gliders

By: Bjornar

Bjornar — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:50:14 +0000

The most important thing to do is to make paragliding comps safer. Competition gliders should pass EN D at trim speed. This way manufacturers can develop 2 versions of an EN D glider, one for mainstream and one for comps. This is especially true IF empirical evidence suggest that most (fatal and non-fatal) accidents in competitions happens while thermalling or searching for lift (at trim speed).

Regarding BBHPP, it is a paraglider and innovation should not be stopped. Innovation may lead to safer gliders as well.

By: Manu

Manu — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:47:42 +0000

I think the new technology is genius and brings paragliding to a new frontier of performance and possibly safety. Performance has plateaued for a while now and, personally, I do not see that there is a big difference between using thin carbon rods or the plastic flexon that everyone is using to reinforce the leading edge these days. I say hats off to Ozone for coming up with the idea and showing that performance leaps are still possible in the realm of paragliding. There is no doubt that the BBHPP is still a paraglider in every sense of the word.